No evidence to support infants were born alive or dead, expert tells Giesbrecht trial

A pathologist whoreviewed the autopsies done on the remains of six infants found in a Winnipeg storage locker testified at the trial of Andrea Giesbrecht that it's possible the babies may have been born alive, but there's no evidence to back that up.

Forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Pollanen, who peer-reviewed autopsy examinations on the remains, testified in court Tuesday that it's also possible the babies could have been stillborn.

"There's no specific evidence one way or the other,"Pollanentestified via video link from Toronto.

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Giesbrecht, a 42-year-old mother of two, has pleaded not guilty to six counts of concealing bodies. Each charge carries a maximum sentence of two years.

She was arrested after employees of a U-Haul storage facility discovered the remains in October 2014 inside a storage locker that had been rented under her maiden name.

The judge-only trial in Manitoba provincial court began in April, with hearings held for several days in July as well as this week.

Both Pollanen and Dr. RaymondRivera, who conducted the autopsies, testified that they cannot determine the cause of death for any of the infants because the remains were too decomposed.

Rivera told the court on Monday that itwas impossible to determine the cause of death or whether the babies had been born alive.Some of the remains appeared to be full-term births, he said.

Court heard umbilical cords were attached to at least two babies' remains, one was found liquefied in a plastic bag, another as a skeleton with no tissue, and another was encased in a concrete slab found in a bucket.

Pollanen testifiedthat the environment in which a baby is born is important, as well asthe care the child receivesafter birth. Newborns are susceptible to hypothermia, so a baby who is not cared for properly could die as a result,he said.

"What about putting a baby in a white plastic bag [after birth]? Would that be a way of killing a baby?" Crown attorney Debbie Buors asked Pollanen in court.

"Yes," Pollanen replied.

Possibility of death during birth

Under cross-examination, Pollanen said he could not exclude the possibility that the infants could have died as a resultof complications during birth.

Pollanen said he does not know Giesbrecht's medical history and can only answer questions based on his findings.

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Earlier in the trial, an obstetrics and gynecology expert testified that Giesbrecht had been pregnant at least 18 times between ages 20 and 38.

A Manitoba Health official testified that Giesbrecht had nine legally induced abortions and one "unspecified" abortion between the ages of 20 and 37, according to claims submitted to the provincial government department.

She also had miscarriages and a "menstrual disorder," the official said.

Giesbrecht has two sons. Her first son was born in 1997, and she was pregnant with her second in 2002, court heard earlier in the trial.

Defence lawyer Greg Brodskyasked Pollanen if it's possible for a woman delivering a baby to know if it was born alive or dead.

"To be frank, I really don't know how to answer that," Pollanen replied.

"I think that's really a question for other people to contemplate. I don't want to be misunderstood."

Husband has yet to finish testifying

Meanwhile, Giesbrecht's husband isexpected to resume his testimony this week, but it's not known when.

Courtheard some testimony last month from Jeremy Giesbrecht, who said he didn't notice his wife had been pregnant multiple times.

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But the trial was halted on July 21, just as he was about to undergo cross-examination, after questions were raised about how much he is willing to disclose about conversations with his wife.

He had told the Crown he would not waive his spousal communication privilege under the Canada Evidence Act, which gives spouses the right not to disclose in their testimony any communications they've had with each other.

However, hetold court he would be prepared to waive his privilegefor some questions from the defence.

Giesbrechtbalked when he was advised that waiving thatprivilege would give the Crown an opportunity to ask him more questions afterwards.The trial was adjourned until this week to give himtime to seek advice from independent legal counsel.

Giesbrecht had not secured the services of a lawyerby the timethe trial resumed on Monday. Legal aid lawyer Amanda Sansregret was appointed to provide him withindependent advice.

Sansregret told courtsheneeds time to provide her new client with meaningful advice.

Judge Murray Thompson, who is overseeing the trial, adjourned the proceedings shortly before 1 p.m. CTand saidthe court will address the issue of spousal communication privileges on Wednesday.

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