Andrea Giesbrecht trial: At least some infants whose remains found in locker likely born alive, court hears

Two medical experts testifying at the trial ofAndreaGiesbrecht, the woman accused of concealing the remains of six infants in a Winnipeg U-Haul storage locker,say it was likely that some, if not all ofthe babies, were born alive.

Dr. MichaelNarvey andDr. Sharon Naughler both told the court on Thursday thatit would be very unlikely for a woman to have six stillborn births.

Narvey,aneonatologistwhohad been provided withautopsy results by Winnipeg police, called the possibility of six stillborn births "very, very improbable."

He also testified thatthe remains found inGiesbrecht'srented storage locker in October 2014 would have been between 34 and 42 weeks gestation.Full term is considered to be 37 weeks, he said.

"I believe some if not all of these children would have been born alive,"Narveytold the court.

Naughler, an obstetrics and gynecology expert who is currently head of obstetrics at the Women's Hospital in Winnipeg, saidThursday afternoon that everything appeared normal inmedical records from Giesbrecht's 2002 pregnancy.

Giesbrecht has two sons, with the older boy born in 1997. She received medical attention while pregnant with her second son in 2002, court heard.

Naughlersaidbased on Giesbrecht's medical history, the chance of having six stillborn births is one in 500 trillion, which she said is "medically impossible."

The Crown asked Naughler how likely it was that the infants whose remains were found in the storage locker would have been born alive.

"Highly likely," Naughler told the court.

Remains badly decomposed

Bothmedical experts testified that they cannot saywith absolutecertainty that the infants were born alive because the remains were badlydecomposed when they were discovered.

Naughler saidpathologists who conducted autopsies on the remains could not detectoxygen in the lungs, given the condition of the remains, and therefore they could not determineif the infantswere stillborn or not.

Narveysaid if one looks at the probability, based on medical literature, that all the infants were stillborn, he said it would be improbable but not impossible.

Giesbrecht, 42,faces six counts of concealing bodies. The judge-only trial began Monday in provincial court in Winnipeg and will continue tomorrow, then resume in August.

Court has heard that the infantremains were discovered on Oct. 20, 2014, inside a storage unitrented by Giesbrecht under her maiden name, Naworynski. They were in various states of decomposition, wrapped in kitchen-style garbage bags, placed in duffel bags and stored in large household containers and pails.

Experts determined the remains belonged to five boys and one girl, court heard earlier in the trial.

"No evidence of any anomalies inthese babies,"Naughlertold the court, adding, "I can't think of any congenital anomaly that could explain six stillbirths."

The trial has to yet to hear any testimony about why the infants' remains were kept in the storage locker.

GregBrodsky,Giesbrecht'slawyer, is expected to present evidence in her defence later in the trial. He has said the case will hinge partly onwhether the infants were born alive, and the legal issues at play in relation tostillbirths and miscarriages.

Pregnant 18 times

On Wednesday, a forensic biologist testified the remains have been linked to DNA found on a soiled sanitary napkin that was in Giesbrecht's home. The biological father of the infants was Jeremy Giesbrecht, Andrea Giesbrecht's husband, court was told.

In cross-examiningNaughler,BrodskysaidGiesbrechtwaspregnant a total of 18 times between the ages of 20 and 38. He asked the doctor if that's normal.

Naughler said yes, provided that a woman is fertile and does not use birth control.

Court heardthat in addition to her two sons,Giesbrechthadnine abortions and one miscarriage between 1994 and 2011.Thenumber of pregnancy terminations was confirmed byGiesbrecht'slawyer.

Both Narvey andNaughler were asked about various potential causes of stillborn births, including uterine infections, complications related to the placenta, hypertension and diabetes.

In those cases, the experts said the mother would be harmed or even die as a result of those complications.

When asked about abortions,Narveysaid theprocedures are generally allowed to be performed until 24 weeks gestation.

Narvey was also asked about what conditions could cause spontaneous abortions, also known as miscarriages.He said deaths under those circumstances would happen in the first or second trimesters only.

"The baby is at the mercy of the placenta and the mother, so to speak," Narvey told the court.

When asked by prosecutors if a mother could "self-abort" and cause deaths in utero, Narvey said it's possible to do so by inserting something into the cervix. However, that would only cause death early in the pregnancy, before the fetus's lungs are formed, he said.

If the mother ruptured her amniotic sac late in pregnancy, it would induce labour and the baby would be born alive, Narvey said.

Follow the recap ofour liveblog written by CarolineBarghout, who is covering the trial this week. Warning: Some details may be graphic.

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