Vince Li move to independent living considered by review board

Vince Li, who beheaded a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus in 2008,is being considered for new freedoms,includingan eventual move toindependent living, bytheManitoba Criminal Code Review Board.

Li was found not criminally responsible for thebeheading death of 22-year-old TimMcLean.

The board heard that any future independent living would likely still includesupervised administration of medication andcontact with health specialists and his treating psychiatrist.

Li's treatment team is recommending a discharge with conditions.

Hewould continue to live at the Winnipeg group homewhere he has stayedsince last year, under similar conditions until the board receives another report with recommendations onindependent living.

At Monday'shearing,Li wore blue jeans witha black top and had short hair. He did not speak.

The board heard Li has not had any problems since he began living in thehalfway house last year. Hehas forensic support and weekly contact with the Manitoba Schizophrenia Society. He alsoattends church weekly as well asa monthlyBible study.

He has taken medication to control psychotic symptoms since 2008, the board heard, and has not had a re-emergence of psychotic symptoms since 2009. He is monitored while taking his medication, and the board heard that hewishes to continue taking it.

The board heard that Li has coping strategies to help him manage the high-profile nature of his caseand that he isa low risk to reoffend.

Crown attorney Brian Sharpedescribed the recommendations from Li's treatment team as appropriate, while noting aneed for review board involvement in the future.

"Society is being protected," said Sharpe of Li. "He's done everything asked of him."

A board member said there should be a decision within the next few days.

McLean's mother, CarolDeDelley, refused to comment on today's hearing.

A fundamental principle of the Canadianjustice system is that accused persons must have the capacity to understand that what they did was wrong otherwise they can't be found guilty of an offence.

Studies show people who are found not criminally responsible and are treated for their mental illness arelikely to reoffend 1/5th as often asthose who are convicted and sent to prison.

Traumatized bus passenger

But Li's request for more freedom is controversial.

"He does deserve a right to be out, more free, but yet I also have the fear still in me that there's going to be a relapse," one of the passengers on that Greyhound bus recently told CBC News. CBC is notnaming the woman because she has a child in the care of Ontario's child welfare system.

Thewoman is being treated for depression and post-traumatic stress disorder, and she still has flashbacks.

"I still have a hard time going on crowdedbuses. I'm always scared that someone is going to start going crazy on the buses."

Last monthshe gave birth to a girl who was apprehended by social workers two days later. The infant was put into foster care and her mother only sees her three times a week.

"She's my world. I love her. I want her. I need her around me. She's the one that helps me start to be better," she said, adding that Li stole more than McLean's life that night.

She says her daughter is "very much a victim of Vince Li, because I don't get to raise her because of how an anniversary in my head plays."

Although she struggles with mental illness herself, the woman worries about what could happen when Li gets more freedom.

"I'd say to Vince Li, I don't look at you as a monster. I understand you had mental illness that was not diagnosed properly or in time. but please if you struggle one day, or get too comfortable with your medications, get the proper help."

'I wasn't in my right mind'

Ten years ago, a man whom CBC News iscalling Bill stabbed a young woman while in the grip of schizophrenia.

"That whole afternoon or evening is just a blur to me," he said.

"I was sick, I wasn't in my right mind. It wasn't something I wanted to do and it isn't something I'm glad I did. It's something I have a great lot of regret about."

Like Li, Bill was found not criminally responsible.

He spent nine years in a forensic hospital in Brockville, Ont.

After intensive counselling and following the right course of medication, he was given a second chance. First, he movedto a group home andthen a regular apartment,all the while under conditions like a curfew, and regular monitoring.

More than one year ago, Bill got an absolute discharge and is now living on his own in the community.

"I don't think I would do it again, but I'm just taking it one day at a time," he said. "It's been less of a challenge lately. As I get better, as I put myself back together, it gets easier.

Dr. Adekunle Ahmed is a forensic psychiatrist at the Royal Ottawa Health Care Group.

He saidit can be hard for some in society to make a distinction between the person and the mental illness.

"There's no doubt there is a risk they may go off their medication. That's why the review board system across the nation, not only in Ontario, is very cautious in terms of when this individual goes into the community," he said.

"All the parties involved err on the side of caution, even the defence counsel errs on the side of caution, because nobody wants whatever happened in the index offence or something similar to the index offence to ever occur again."

Canada has one of the best systems in the world for monitoring people who have been found not criminally responsible, Ahmed said.

"I would say a show of compassion and understanding, rather than stigmatizing this individual would go a long way to protecting others in society, because the more you stigmatize, the more you marginalize. The more you marginalize, the more people feel disenfranchised, and that creates more problems in the long run," he said.

Bill isn't required to report to anyone anymore, but he chooses to see an outreach nurse every other week, and his psychiatrist every three months.

He's determined not to relapse, and he has this message for those concerned he and others like himpose a risk to society.

"Vince Li, I can't say what kind of a risk he is, I don' t know the man, but I think he and I both deserve a second chance."