Liberal president talked merger: affidavits

Two Liberal Partyadvisers have swornaffidavits saying thefederal party's president spoke to them about high-level discussions with NDP officials about the creation of a new party.

But Alfred Apps is denying he was involved in any serious merger talks.

Warren Kinsella, who was an adviser to former prime minister Jean Chrtien,saidin the affidavit that Apps told him in May about "high-level" discussions with NDP officials about the "creation of a new party."

He writes that he took "detailed notes" of his conversation withthe Liberal Party presidentand was surprised when Apps told him there was "a lot of interest in merger in the NDP."

He said Apps told him the NDP would have to comply with three conditions: renouncing socialism and embracing a mixed-market economy; accepting Michael Ignatieff as leader; and havingsenior party "saints" such as former federal NDP leader Ed Broadbent and past Saskatchewan NDP leader Roy Romanow promote the merger.

In another affidavit, John Mraz, a former director of communications for the Liberals, said thatin a discussion withApps, the party presidenttold him about merger talks between the two parties.

Mraz sayshetold Apps thathe hadheard rumours of talks betweenChrtien andEd Broadbent, a former federal NDP leader.

He saidApps "angrily"replied: "You don't know the half of it. You've got no idea what you're talking about. I've been involved in those discussions, and they not onlyincluded Broadbent and Chrtien, but [formerSaskatchewan NDP premier Roy] Romanow, [former ProgressiveConservativeprime minister Joe] Clark and [former Ontario chief justice andattorney general Roy] McMurtry."

Mraz in his statement also said that any such merger would "demand that the NDP renounce socialism."

The documents come amid fierce denials by leaders of both partiesofthe CBC News report that the Liberals and NDP have been holding secret talks aboutpossibly merging to form a new entity to take on the Conservatives.

But Apps told CBC Newsthat Kinsella's claims in the affidavitare not true. He insisted Kinsella called him and told him of the meetings of two party's senior figures, not the other way around.

"In subsequent calls from Warren, I discouraged him strongly from pursuing the idea," Apps said. "I have never personally engaged in serious discussions on this topicand have no personal knowledge of any such discussions among others.I have never encouraged such discussion."

Apps told CBCthat Kinsella and Mraz were the only two Liberals to call him about the subject.

As for Clark's participation, Apps said the only information he passed on to Mraz was information he learned from Kinsella.

"I then speculated and said we clearly have a bunch of former politicians, if these meetings are occurring, I said I wonder if they're involving former PCs like Joe Clark."

On Tuesday, CBC News reported that senior insiders with the Liberals and New Democrats have been holding secret talks about the possibility of merging their parties to form a new entity to challengethe Conservatives.

Many Liberal insiders confirmed that discussions between the two parties are not just focused on forming a coalition after an election or co-operation before one, but the creation of a new party.

The new party would possibly be named the Liberal Democrats.

Kinsella told CBC News "serious people are involved in discussions at a serious level."

But on Wednesday, Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff called discussions of a merger "ridiculous."

Kinsella worked for Ignatieff in the Opposition Leader's Office until recently, reportedly leaving on less thanthe best of terms.

When asked Wednesdayabout his relationship with Kinsella, Ignatieff responded: "I have no relationship with Warren Kinsella."