Mike Duffy trial: Ben Perrin, ex-PMO lawyer, believed Ray Novak knew about Nigel Wright's cheque

A former legal advisor to the Prime Minister's Office said thathe believed Stephen Harper's current chief of staffwaspart of a conference callin whichNigelWright's plan topersonallyrepay Mike Duffy's questionableexpenses was discussed.

But BenjaminPerrin'sstatementto theRCMP, which was read out at theDuffy trial today,seems to be at odds with whatWright and the Harper campaign have said about Ray Novak's knowledge regarding the $90,000 cheque.

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"Ray was in that meeting and Ray heard this," Perrin said, according to the Feb. 2014 statement read out in court by Duffy's lawyer Donald Bayne."And I remember looking at Ray to see his reaction ... So this is black and white, OK?"

The evidence came as Wright also revealed that he had been in touch with Novakas little as two weeks ago.

Novakhas been in the headlines sinceemailsrevealed atthe Duffy trial suggestedNovak, who wasHarper's deputy chief of staff in 2013,may have been aware ofWright's plan.

In court today, WrighttoldBaynethat hehad last spoken to Novak in May or June. But when pressed onwhen he last communicated with Novak, Wright said it wasabouttwo weeks ago.

He said it wasthrough BlackBerry messages for "a minute or two."

'Ray wasn't on the call'

Wright also testifiedthat Novak didnottake part in the conferencecall in March2013 in which he discussed personally paying back Duffy's controversial expenses.

"Ray wasn't on the call. He may have dropped into the office for part of it. He was not on the call," Wright said.

"I think Iwanted him on the call but he didn't participate," Wright said.

One emailpresented in court,dated March22, 2013,saidNovak would be part of a conference call with Wright, Duffy's then-lawyer Janice Payne, andPerrin.

Wright told court on Tuesday Novakhad "popped in and out."

In another email, on March 23, Wrightwrote to Novakand Perrinsaying, "I will send my cheque on Monday."

A Conservative spokesmanhassaidNovakwas on the first part of that conferencecall, but didn't hear discussion of Wright's cheque. He alsosaid that Novak never opened the emailfrom Wright in which Wright says he will send the cheque.

But Perrinsaid, according to the transcript read out in court,that he believedNovakwas in the room at the time of that conference call.

"My testimony is that he was in the meeting and you have a follow-up email to that meeting to Ray Novak where Nigel Wright says, 'I will send my chequeon Monday," Perrin said in the statement.

"The people that I, from my own personal knowledge, knew about this was obviously Nigel Wright, myself, Ray Novak and David van Hemmen, Nigel's assistant."Perrinis expected to testify at a later date.

Wright denies he attempted 'to fix' audit

Earlier,Wright had deniedthat he attempted "to fix" an outside audit being conducted by Deloitte that was looking into the residency and expense claims of senators.

Baynehas pored overa series of emailsfrom members of the Prime Minister's Office, including Wright during his time as Harper's right-hand man, all related to Duffy's expenses.

In the one email, Wright said he wanted Conservative Senator Irving Gerstein to "work through senior contacts at Deloitte."

"You are the director of this scheme to have Senator Gerstein secretly approach Deloitte to fix their [report]," Bayne asked Wright on Tuesday.

"No it's not true," Wright said. I'm actually trying to get clarity."

Wright saidhe was just hoping to get Gerstein together with Senator David Tkachuk the chair of the Senatesteering committee that had asked for the auditand membersof Deloitte to "close the loop."

Wright said he wanted Deloitte to be aware of a proposal by Tkachukthat Deloitte drop the review into Duffy since Duffy had agreed to repay his expenses.

More email questions

Also Tuesday,Bayne referred to another email from Patrick Rogers, who wasmanager of parliamentary affairs at the PMO, in which Rogers said he spoke with Gerstein. Rogers wrote that Gerstein"agrees with ourunderstanding of the situation and his Deloitte contact agrees.

"The stage we are at now is waiting for the Senator's contact to get the actual Deloitteauditor on the file to agree.The Senator will call back once we have Deloitte locked in," Rogers wrote.

Bayne charged: "The senior guy at Deloitte is going to try and influence the actual auditor conducting the strictly confidential work to agree that we can call it off now because ... Duffy's repaid."

But Wright said those were Rogers's words, not his,and that's not what he had intended or asked Gerstein to do.

Bayne asked Wright whether he immediately wrote back to Rogers to say that his characterization of what Gerstein was doing was wrong.

"I didn't do that, but I was highly confident that SenatorGerstein wouldn't do the kinds of things that weresuggested here," Wright said. "Iknew Ihad spoken to him and he was clear."

Wright has faced tough questioning from Bayne, who has painstakingly gone through emails related to a scheme in 2013 to have the Canadian public believe that Duffy himself had paid back his expenses. Bayne had argued that Wright forced Duffy to accept the deal.

Duffy claims totalled$90K, not $32K

The PMO had been attempting to quash the controversythat had arisen because Duffy, a P.E.I. senator,had designated his home in that province as his primary residence.Thatmadehim eligible toclaimliving expenses for his Ottawa residence, even though he spent most of his time in Canada's capital.

Members of the PMO, including Wright, wanted Duffy to agree to a deal in which he wouldadmit he had made an unintentional mistake and saythat he would repay theexpenses, at the time thought to be $32,000.

In turn, Gerstein, who was chair of a Conservative Party fund, had arranged with Wright that the fund would be used to secretly cover Duffy's expenses. Duffy, by agreeing to go along with the plan, would have his name kept out of an audit being conducted by the outside firmDeloitte.

Duffy did go public with his admission that he may have made a mistake and would pay the expenses back. But thedeal eventuallywent sour when it was learned Duffy's expenses included per diem claims andactuallytotalled$90,000.

Gersteinwould no longer allow money from the fund to be used to cover the expenses.That's when Wright personally intervened with his own money, court hasheard.

Wright's fifthday of testimonycomeson the41stday of Duffy'sjudge-only trial, which resumed last Wednesday after breaking on June 18. It was the second hiatus of the high-profile trial, which began April 7 in the Ontario Court of Justice in Ottawa. This third phase will continue until Aug. 28, and, with more time assuredly needed, break until it would resume again in mid-November.

Duffyhas pleaded not guilty to 31 charges of fraud, breach of trust and bribery related toexpenses he claimed in 2013 as a senator and later repaid with money from Wright.